In this episode of the Trusted Adviser Podcast, Rob Pyne speaks with Rebecca Tai, co-founder of Game Plan Wealth Advisers, about building a modern advice business designed specifically for millennials and younger professionals. Rebecca shares how she and her business partner, Alicia, identified a gap in the advice market for younger Australians making significant financial decisions but unable to access advice through traditional models. They discuss designing a business from a clean slate, creating scalable service offerings, using technology to improve client experience, leveraging social media to build trust, and maintaining a long-term vision while growing a successful advice practice. The conversation also explores pricing, onboarding, project-based advice, technology integration, personal branding, the ethical decision to outsource insurance advice, and the psychological realities of starting and growing a business.

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SHOW NOTES

Topics Discussed

Targeting younger clients with tailored advice models
Innovative use of social media and digital tools
Business design and long-term strategic planning
Why younger Australians often struggle to access traditional financial advice.
Building a financial planning business specifically for millennials.
Designing service offerings around life stages rather than asset levels.
The importance of long-term thinking when building an advice business.
Creating scalable pricing models and avoiding custom solutions for every client.
The role of project-based advice as an entry point for younger clients.
Developing streamlined onboarding processes and client journeys.
Using Instagram and social media to educate and attract ideal clients.
Building a personal brand while reducing key-person risk.
Leveraging HubSpot and technology to improve lead generation and client segmentation.
Choosing best-of-breed technology rather than relying on a single platform.
The impact of AI and emerging technology on advice businesses.
Why Rebecca chose to partner with insurance specialists rather than offer insurance advice internally.
The importance of specialization and staying within areas of expertise.
The psychological challenges of entrepreneurship and business ownership.

Episode Highlights

(Timestamps are approximate)

[00:00] – Rebecca Tai’s journey into financial advice and entrepreneurship
[01:00] – Identifying the advice gap for younger Australians
[03:00] – Why servicing younger clients requires a completely different business model
[05:00] – The three client service tiers: Foundations, Pathway to Wealth, and Countdown to Retirement
[07:30] – Playing the “infinite game” and resisting short-term business decisions
[10:30] – How pricing evolved as the business matured
[13:30] – Project-based advice and creating a lower barrier to entry
[17:00] – Building an efficient and scalable onboarding process
[19:00] – Growing an audience through Instagram and educational content
[22:00] – Personal branding versus business branding
[24:30] – Using HubSpot to track leads and improve marketing effectiveness
[27:30] – Building a technology stack with best-of-breed solutions
[34:00] – AI, advice technology, and the future of advice delivery
[36:00] – Why Game Plan Wealth Advisers chose not to provide insurance advice internally
[39:30] – Staying focused on long-term business goals
[40:00] – Building brand visibility and client experience
[45:00] – The biggest surprise about running a business: the psychological challenge
[47:00] – Resilience, uncertainty, and what it takes to succeed as a business owner

Quotes from Rebecca Tai

“Some people are so poor, all they have is money.”
“We essentially created a business for ourselves.”
“If you’re trying to service younger clients using the old model, that’s where the challenge comes from.”
“We’re playing the infinite game. It’s not a short-term thing that we’re building.”
“Pricing is a reflection of business design.”
“The personal brand is a great entry point to attracting people who want to understand what you stand for.”
“Technology should start with the end goal. What is it that we want to achieve?”
“If we’re not the best person to give advice in an area, then we shouldn’t be doing it.”
“To become successful, a lot of it is not technical. It’s psychological.”
“Social media is about harvesting potential clients and watering that potential over time.”

Key Takeaways

Rebecca began her financial advice career in 2009 before co-founding Game Plan Wealth Advisers.
The business was designed specifically to serve younger professionals and millennials.
Younger clients can be highly profitable when the service model is designed around their needs.
Game Plan Wealth Advisers segments clients into three distinct life-stage service offerings.
Long-term thinking and strategic focus have been central to the firm’s growth.
Standardised pricing improves scalability and operational efficiency.
Project-based advice provides an accessible entry point for younger clients.
Structured onboarding has improved both client experience and business efficiency.
Instagram has become a powerful education and client acquisition channel.
Personal branding helps build trust before prospects become clients.
HubSpot provides valuable insights into lead sources and client engagement.
Technology decisions should be driven by business outcomes rather than software features.
AI is already improving efficiency in areas such as file notes and advice preparation.
Specialisation and referral partnerships can deliver better client outcomes than trying to do everything internally.
Business success depends as much on resilience and mindset as it does on technical expertise.

Resources & Links

The Trusted Adviser: https://thetrustedadviser.com.au/
Game Plan Wealth Advisers: https://gameplanwa.com.au/
Game Plan Wealth Advisers (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/gameplanwa
Connect with Rob Pyne on LinkedIn
Connect with Rebecca Tai on LinkedIn and on Instagram
Follow The Trusted Adviser Podcast

TRANSCRIPT

Rob (00:01.57)

Welcome Rebecca Tai to the Trusted Adviser Podcast.

Rebecca Tai (00:04.629)

Hi, thanks so much for having me, Rob.

Rob (00:07.116)

It’s great to have you on the show, Beck. We have known each other for a good number of years, but we haven’t been in regular contact in recent years. And you’ve been up to some stuff since last time we chatted. You’ve been a bit busy. So I want to talk about that today because you’re tackling a market that’s very hard for advice firms to do well. I wanna I wanna dig into that with you. But before we get there, let’s talk about your career.

Rebecca Tai (00:16.753)

I’ve been a bit busy. Yeah.

Rob (00:35.542)

Journey so far. You started your career in 2009. You’ve been building that in financial advice ever since. And at some point, you and your colleague Alicia looked at the clients you were serving and the clients you weren’t and decided there was a whole cohort of people who genuinely needed advice but didn’t fit the model. What was the gap, and what was it about that gap that made you back yourselves to build a business around it?

Rebecca Tai (00:59.775)

Yeah, so I honestly didn’t set out to start a business. It was something that kind of came over time as we were working and financial planning. Alicia and I noticed that we were getting to a life stage where we were making a lot of really big decisions that would impact our financial futures. So we kind of used each other as a sounding board for our own financial planning. And we thought that if we, as financial planners, could benefit from someone objectively looking into our financial situation. How much more so would someone else who is not a financial planner in our similar life stage benefit from that? And so over time that sort of feeling grew. And we were looking at the clients that we were serving. And it was clear that the current model couldn’t quite service the people who really needed advice like us. So we, Alicia and I, essentially created a business for ourselves. What is something that we felt we needed? What’s something that how how do we engage with professional services and what is it that we would really what is it that we would really like to see in a financial advice business for people like us? And and anecdotally, a lot of our friends were asking for advice as well, and we knew we couldn’t service them in our previous firm.

Rob (02:21.388)

Yeah, yeah, it’s such a great catalyst to start something new with and thinking, well, if we’re advisors ourselves and we’re actually asking each other to sort of get our affairs in order, we know there’s a co whole cohort of people out there that like us that could really value this advice and would would benefit from it. So, so well done on taking the plunge. You know, there’s a widely held view in the profession and we’re no no different, it kind of prompted me to reach out to you because…

Rebecca Tai (02:42.657)

Yeah.

Rob (02:49.464)

…clients under forty can be difficult to retain and they can be challenging to make economic. what’s been your experience and where do you think that perception doesn’t really tell the full story?

Rebecca Tai (03:02.657)

I think that it’s actually true in that it can be very hard to service them, but only in the context of the fact that you’re trying to service them using the old model. So most finite the traditional advice firms, they gen generally tend to target those pre-retiring retiree clients, and their needs are generally superannuation, retirement planning, tax strategies, which is all relevant, but it is based on that old model. Whereas if you’re trying to target a whole new segment of clients with different characteristics, different cultural upbringing, different ways of that they engage and absorb information, then I do think you need to start from a clean slate and create a service that is specifically tailored towards them. and so what I mean by that is that if you have a advice firm that you already have your own target market and then you’re trying to fit that segment into your target market, it’s like trying to squeeze a square peg and a round hole. It just doesn’t quite work. Whereas you throw away your old ide th those ideas and create something from scratch, then you can make it economic because your whole business is built around that service and you can scale it to service more clients.

Rob (04:19.158)

Yeah, yeah. And it goes to how you attract them, how you service them. You’re doing some really cool stuff we’re gonna get into in a second, which I’m really excited to hear more about and I’m sure our listeners will be too, because it’s you’ve been quite innovative and and others that are in this space are probably taking a similar approach to you. But yeah, I’m looking forward to talking a bit more about how you find those people and how they are attracted to you. But before we get there, you’ve got three service tiers you call foundations.

Rebecca Tai (04:22.781)

Exactly. Yeah.

Rob (04:47.8)

Pathway to Wealth and Countdown to Retirement. Can you talk us through those service offers and how you determine where clients sit, or do they self-select?

Rebecca Tai (04:59.913)

Yeah, so those three tiers really reflect the fact that all the clients there’s clients that are coming from all different stages of life, and they’re on a financial journey. So what part of the financial journey are they on? Now, most clients actually don’t realize what stage of the financial journey they’re on. So we can identify it pretty quickly when we look at their situation and have a chat to them and their goals and needs. But broadly, a foundation client is designed. For clients who are in that accumulation stage. They may not have a lot of assets yet, but they’ve got high potential. So they’re high earning, they’re kind of building their asset base. They’re starting in pretty early on in their financial journey. They might have just started a business, or they’re starting in their career and trying to accumulate and learn about these concepts for the first time. Pathway to wealth clients have a little bit more complexity. They might have some assets already, some structures in place, and it’s really about maximizing what they have to achieve their goals. And countdown to retirement, that’s pretty self-explanatory, but they’re kind of within 10 years of wanting to stop working or have the option to stop working. And there’s very specific strategies that we apply to that cohort of clients.

Rob (06:15.062)

And would it be fair to say this particular client type is very tech savvy and very open to virtual meetings, which actually expands your audience potential. So, going from someone who can drive no more than 30 minutes to get to see you, are you picking up clients from all over because they were they are aware of your offer, and they might be, you know, in other state, and they really want to engage with someone who really is designing their business to serve their needs specifically?

Rebecca Tai (06:44.437)

Yeah, that’s an interesting question. We definitely have clients where the distance doesn’t really matter because we meet with them online, but there is still a level of home bias to our business as well. So we do get clients, prospects who call us because they can see that we’re local. Even if they don’t ever meet us in person, they just know that they’re familiar with the fact that we’re in Melbourne or somewhere close to where they live. So both yes. And also no. but you’re right in that this cohort of client millennials they tend to be a lot more tech savvy. So it does change the way we engage with them in forms of the tools that we use and how we collect information, how we service them, how they continue to engage with us ongoing.

Rob (07:27.982)

Okay. So in serving that younger audience, you made a really conscious decision to not take on the pension phase client, the more traditional client, as you described earlier. What is it like to hold that boundary? Because I’m sure you still have people come to you that are in that phase of life and looking for advice. How do you think about what you’re trading off to keep that service really tight to your, you know, target client?

Rebecca Tai (07:51.584)

Yeah, I think with any startup, it can be really tempting to just get that short-term cash flow going. But I think if you have a you start a high conviction business for a reason, you want to target a cohort of clients that aren’t being taken care of. So holding that boundary does require discipline. But we’re also playing the infinite game, right? So it’s not a short-term thing that we’re building. We’re wanting to build a long-term, sustainable, and scalable business. So holding that service offering tight means that we don’t let these short-term decisions impact our long-term planning. Yeah. I have

Rob (08:27.736)

I love that reference. You’re did you read the book The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek? Yes. When you hear when you said that, I thought you’ve read that book too. Yeah, it’s a great book.

Rebecca Tai (08:36.117)

Yeah, no, it is a great book, and it’s so it very much aligns with the way I think about business is that, you know, if you’re just building something for the short term, then it really does change the way you make decisions. And building something that is long-lasting and infinite requires a lot of discipline in the short term to say no to the things that don’t quite align with your vision. And that’s sort of where it comes from when we say no to clients who are already in pension phase, and there’s not a lot of value that we can add based on our current service model, then we just tell them that this is not typically the clients that we choose to service. And these are the reasons why, but we do partner with other financial planners who do target these clients. And that’s where the strength of the professional network is really important.

Rob (09:23.534)

I guess there’d be some reciprocal opportunity there too, wouldn’t there? ‘Cause they’d have younger people, yeah, approaching them as well that they can’t act properly service. Yeah, yeah. Wha yeah. When you said the infinite game, and I it reminded me you might be too young for this, Beck, but you remember

Rebecca Tai (09:25.845)

Definitely.

Rob (09:39.019)

Amazon back in the early two thousands was just burning so much cash and not making any money and there was a lot of criticism and pressure on Jeff Bezos at the time and not that I’m a sort of a a fanboy on on the Amazon story per se, but I remember it specifically about him saying, We’re playing a long game here and and he’s actually been kinda quoted now as saying long term thinking is one of his core tenets, how he actually thinks about the business. It’s always about thinking how it’s gonna be in fifty years’ time, not just in five years or in you know, or one-year cycles. And when you’re a public company like they are, that must have been challenging early on with a lot of pressure they copped. But I do absolutely subscribe to that theory as you build something with the end in mind, which is a very long horizon, not just your own short-term needs being met. So well done on sticking to your guns there. You mentioned that in the process of building the business, naturally, pricing becomes something you’re trying to figure out, where you’re dealing with an audience of clients that is not typical, so you’ve come from a different, more traditional approach. You said it evolved quite a bit since you started the business, the pricing. What was the process of getting that right? And what did you come to understand about your value along the way?

Rebecca Tai (10:52.767)

Yeah, I think it definitely required a huge paradigm shift, just ’cause I worked in a certain model for such a long time that you think it’s almost the only way. And as I mentioned before, you really do need to just forget everything you knew about advice and start from a clean slate and go, Well, we’re serving this, seeing a completely different type of client now. What would work for a client like this with these particular issues? And I think when you start a business like we did with absolutely no clients, no revenue, nothing, you tend to start off with more of a defensive mindset to go, well, I hope I don’t lose this client. I hope we’re not overcharging. What is our competitors doing? But over time, you see the amount of value you can add to clients, you start being really clear on who we serve, what are the problems we can solve, and how we can actually help these clients. And that makes pricing become a lot clearer because you are really clear on the value that you can add, and then you price accordingly. So I think it pricing as well is a reflection of business design. So when you have a really clear model, it makes it so much easier to scale later on. And it comes back to what we were talking about before, making these harder decisions up front. So that later on it becomes those decisions or the business can grow more seamlessly. Yeah. And if you have a whole sorry, here you go. No, that’s okay. I was just gonna add that if you do have a business where you have custom pricing for every single client, that just makes it really hard not only to service, but to scale later on, because each client is essentially its own little business that you have to then stream, which makes it very hard to streamline.

Rob (12:22.112)

Yeah, absolutely. And there’d be no one. You keep going, sorry. There’d be no business that’s ever picked their price from the beginning and not changed it. It’s there’s no way you get that right first go. Yeah. So

Rebecca Tai (12:51.635)

Yeah, and I reckon in six months time I’ll look back at the point I’m in now and laugh at myself ’cause th there’ll be more changes to come. But it really is just a continual alignment of your pricing with the value, and the surfs that you’ve created.

Rob (13:09.622)

You just say, and it’s a business model decision too, isn’t it? Because you can think top down, you can think bottom up. People start at bottom up often, they’ll go, Well, what does it cost my time? You know, but and and but you’ve got to do it both directions, don’t you? So what does it cost my time, and what’s the value I can create. But it has to be top down as well. To say, well, how many clients could we serve? What would that look like? How how many people does it support in our team that we need to support that client cohort? So yeah, it’s a it’s a ever-evolving thing for sure. And you mentioned when we chatted earlier that roughly half your

Rebecca Tai (13:20.287)

Yeah. Correct.

Rob (13:39.576)

Revenue is actually project-based, and half is ongoing in nature. What’s your thinking on that mix, and how do you think it’ll evolve over time?

Rebecca Tai (13:48.192)

Yeah, I think that mix is also a function of the stage of the business life cycle that we’re in. So in the beginning, you’re just trying to sign on a whole bunch of new clients. So I would say the first year was actually the majority upfront. Now there is that mix where we’re doing project versus upfront. So we do distinguish between those as well, and then ongoing. We do think that we really like the option of having that project work. Given the type of clients, like millennial clients that we’re trying to target, a lot of their needs can start as a one-off. They may not want to feel like they need to commit ongoing for an indefinite period of time from the get-go, but there oftentimes is an issue that they’re grappling with that they need clarity on. And so by having project work, we can provide that lower entry, barrier to entry, for them to start out and then understand the value of having a professional look at their situation. And oftentimes, we can upsell to an ongoing relationship. So that flexibility is really good. Other times, it might be a one-off, and then they come back a year later with another issue they might be grappling with. So having that flexibility is really beneficial for a business like ours and the type of clients that we serve.

Rob (15:04.598)

Yeah, so it’s distinctly different, as you said. There’s like a traditional client that might come in for a service where it’s going to be an ongoing relationship, and you know that from the outset. You would have an upfront plan fee and then an ongoing service fee, but the project fee is quite distinctly separate, and that’s like a defined piece of work for a fee, and that starts and finishes, and then, as you say they might come back for another project down the line, or they may come at the back end of that project and think, Well actually…

Rebecca Tai (15:21.75)

Yes.

Rob (15:29.942)

… I really valued that process, and why don’t we just continue? Would you then have incorporated an SOA in the project fee so they would then go straight to an ongoing arrangement at that point?

Rebecca Tai (15:30.057)

Yeah, correct. So we do the project work doesn’t include the statement of advice. So that is distinctly separate. And then on the back of that project work, oftentimes they go, This is a really great, you know, this has been a really great session. I got so much clarity from that. What’s next? Then we go, well, your options are you can go and make that decision, and you go ahead and do all the things that we’ve spoken about in terms of the guidance that we’ve provided.

Rob (15:45.14)

Okay. Yep.

Rebecca Tai (16:08.059)

Or if you need specific advice as to exactly how much, what products, personalised advice, then we can actually help you implement that as well. Provide you the advice, implement it, and support you ongoing. And I often liken it to getting a workout plan. Some people go to the gym and they get a workout plan and they go off and they’re happily doing it themselves. Other people, like me, need somebody to actually teach you how to do it, push you along, make sure you’re kept accountable…

Rob (16:31.49)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tai (16:37.515)

… to the goals that you’ve set. And so that’s the analogy we often use for these clients who come to us for project work. Well, which it’s flexible for you. Which one do you want to choose? And then we let them make that decision.

Rob (16:50.126)

It’s a good analogy, I think people can relate. You identified onboarding as an area that took a real effort to get right. What does your onboarding process look like now? And how much of a difference has it made to the day-to-day running of the business when you bring a new client on?

Rebecca Tai (17:08.467)

Yeah, I think having done it quite a few times now, it’s helped refine the process and make it really seamless. In the beginning, it was just meeting clients and then hoping that they would sign a terms of engagement. Now we have a fairly structured onboarding so that every single new client who comes into our business has a similar experience, but still does not miss out on that personalized touch. So our clients can book a meeting via a website or a booking link. And then they would get a 30-minute Teams chat with one of us or both of us. And then after that, we will send them the terms of engagement. We’ll also offer another terms of engagement meeting if they would like to get more clarity on what that actually all means for them. And then once they sign the terms of engagement, we collect our commitment fee, and then we start the work. So that part it our processes, our technology, our templated emails, we feel like we’ve really nailed. And it’s just more. Hopefully, we can nail the rest of our processes in the same way. Yeah.

Rob (18:13.774)

Yeah, well, it’s a good one to get down, isn’t it? Because you know, that front-end process, that experience at the front end, to make sure that you’re not burning a lot of time on people that really aren’t going to be a fit or are not perhaps suitable for the service. You are getting that, you know, initial phase done really seamlessly and efficiently. So you’re finding the right people, taking them through a a not significant acquisition cost process for you. It’s it’s it’s a pretty streamlined process, and by the time…

Rebecca Tai (18:22.561)

Correct, yeah. Yes.

Rob (18:41.132)

… you get to know a little bit about the situation they engage in, and you’ve got them looking for that project work to be completed or the ongoing work, the upfront and ongoing work. So speaking of how you attract them, because also you’ve got a good process there, once you do, you’re generating thousands of views on Instagram, and this surprised me ’cause I’m not of your generation. I have an Instagram account, so I’ll admit to that, but I’m not.

Rebecca Tai (18:44.993)

Correct.

Rob (19:09.078)

I’m not as familiar with it, and you’re using minimal equipment, no production budget, but I saw your Instagram account after our initial chat, and it’s really impressive to think that that’s all done, really built into the app. It’s a capability the app already has. What have you found actually works with this audience, and what do you think gets in the way for advisors like me who try to do something similar?

Rebecca Tai (19:32.524)

Yeah. I think that Instagram really came from the fact that that’s this is how I consume social media, I use Instagram. And as I mentioned earlier, we created this business for ourselves. So I’m thinking, well, how would I engage with a professional service? I would look at their Instagram page to get a feel of what they’re like. So if I’m trying to get a feel of what they’re like, then I want to hear them talking. I want to hear them explaining concepts that I might be thinking about. And so I’m not concerned about the equipment or looking too fancy. I just want to be myself, and I think about the things that I say over and over again to the same clients or the same people who ask me the same questions. And I just pick up my phone and record the thing that that same topic that I’ve been thinking about or been talking about. So in a certain week, I think I got qu three questions on Novada leases. So I was like, I will make an Instagram reel on it, and that will help me reach a wider audience with that same video. So that’s the philosophy behind it. And I think it can feel like a huge barrier sometimes to create a video. And in the beginning, I definitely felt that way, felt really self-conscious, looking at myself in the camera all the time. But I’ll see it is actually the most efficient way to get a message out there, where you go, I’m saying this all the time anyway. And if you’re saying it all the time, you’re pretty, you’ve got a pretty well-versed script on the things that you would explain about that concept. So why not just put it out there? Because a huge part of our vision is also education. So we want to make sure that our prospects, our clients, are educated so that they have the confidence to make financial decisions. And so this really this strategy really aligns with that, that financial education part of it. And I’m happy to give out information for free because you can get this online anyway, right? But people want to be able to see someone that they trust, talk about these topics, and that’s kinda where it comes from. Yeah.

Rob (21:32.173)

Yeah, I can certainly relate to that. I mean, as you say, people want to see who it is they’re gonna be working with if they are, and you say video is the best way to do that. Despite initially, as you say, starting out being self-conscious, you’re doing a wonderful job at that. And it looks like you’ve done a lot of prep beforehand, but because you’re becoming quite accustomed to doing it, you’re actually not doing a whole lot of prep. You’re already talking to people about these concepts. So it’s really just putting the camera on and then really just talking to the camera for a

Rebecca Tai (21:44.447)

Yeah.

Rob (21:59.183)

And they’re not long videos, are they? They’re like, you know, one, two minutes. Yeah.

Rebecca Tai (22:01.013)

No. Ninety minutes. Yeah. I just kind of im imagine that there’s someone asking me an interview question like what we’re doing now. There’s an interviewer, and then I’m answering a question. So I think about the question that I get asked a lot, and then I go and answer that question. I film myself answering that question. And that helps me talk about it in a succinct way. Yep.

Rob (22:23.512)

We’ll put your Instagram page in the show notes as a link for those who want to check it out. It’s very cool. You did make the point when we were chatting earlier as well that you people follow people, they don’t follow companies. How do you think about balancing the strength of a personal brand that you’re building by virtue of this process? We’re building a business that has its own identity and doesn’t r rest entirely on you.

Rebecca Tai (22:26.593)

Thanks. Yeah, that’s a really good question. I think I s made that comment in the context of social media because I always think about the people I follow, and it’s always people. I know the people that I’m following because I can relate to them and resonate with them. And so in the context of then building a business that’s not entirely, you know, reliant on one person, which can be a risk for a small business where you have key person risk. So the business relies on that one person and their brand to continue growing.

Rob (22:52.782)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tai (23:16.691)

I think the personal brand is a great entry point to attracting people who want to understand what it is that you stand for. What is it that you believe in? What are your values? How do you communicate? And then when they’ve had that entry point via your personal brand, it’s then giving them an experience that can be scalable, and it’s consistent across every aspect of the business. So then that removes that key person risk. That’s the idea. I think you probably would have more experience than I do in this area, Rob, because you obviously have built a really strong brand for your business. That’s not reliant on you, but for me, that’s probably the idea that I want to build a strong personal brand. But then, as we continue the business, Alicia and I, we ensure that all areas of the business, be it tech or branding or education, it’s aligned to the things that stand for that we stand for as well.

Rob (24:10.882)

Yeah, you’re dead right. It does work just like that. As you say, it’s an entry point because they connect with you personally and you’re doing a wonderful job on attracting people. But as they get to experience the business of game plan wealth advisors and what you guys can deliver, that’s the bit that makes them stay around and think this is the service I’m looking for and you just happen to be the the conduit initially to get them to to come along. So and you started tracking your lead sources when we’re talking about your technology. You said you’re doing it through HubSpot.

Rebecca Tai (24:26.75)

Yeah, correct.

Rob (24:40.14)

And you were weighing up all your ’cause clean sheet business, you just looked at everything and you weighed up all options and you came down with HubSpot as being the best option for you. What do you expect the data that you collect through HubSpot about and the leads that you generate, what will it tell you and how might it shape where your focus and energy goes in terms of finding new clients from from that information?

Rebecca Tai (25:01.631)

Yes, I should preface that we’re fairly new to it as well. But as you mentioned, clean, you know, new business, we can start from scratch, and we kind of looked at all the different options. We prefer to think of the tech stack as more of an organizational infrastructure as opposed to individual pieces of technology that we’re putting together. So, what is the best option for collecting client information and client data that gives us the lead generation and marketing information that we need. And HubSpot was probably the standout for us in that specific area. In terms of how it can collect information, it can track your website views, what pages people are clicking on, you know, in terms of the client information, it shows up immediately, or what firm are they working from, their LinkedIn pages, social media pages, what links they have clicked on, and the email communications that you’ve sent them. So that for us is important in terms of how we then curate marketing materials for the next time. And it just allows us to better segment our clients accordingly.

Rob (26:12.846)

Okay, so tell me a bit more about that. So if someone gives you or reaches out to you and they give you your name, that they give them their name, and they give you their email, does that do HubSpot have that sort of sophisticated way of then taking that information and going, This is where this person works? How much information does it share with you based on that preliminary data you might have on the client?

Rebecca Tai (26:35.005)

Yeah, so it depends. So if they put in a Gmail account, then we don’t have much data to go with. We would just simply segment them out as a prospect who was interested in our email communications. But if they do have a domain name, it does show what company they work for, how they found us, what sort, you know, whether they found us through the website or social media or anything else, then that would give us some background information to their business if they have one.

Rob (27:02.946)

Yeah. So it’ll tell you the ch the channel. Yeah.

Rebecca Tai (27:03.403)

But yeah, it does require us to segment.

Rob (27:07.052)

Yeah, okay, great. Super helpful, isn’t it, in advance knowing where they come from and how they found you. Because how they found you is obviously the bit that’s super interesting to say, well, what was it that actually engaged them to reach out? So, talking about technology, you made some, as I said, deliberate choices about the tools you would use. You still use X Plan; it does a job for you, and it has certain functions that you still use. HubSpot, the other, the CRM that we’ve now spoken about. What’s the principle that you

Rebecca Tai (27:15.893)

Yeah. Definitely.

Rob (27:36.976)

You think about keeping these things separate, and what does that well-integrated setup look like as the business grows, do you think?

Rebecca Tai (27:44.886)

Yeah, I think it there’s definitely trade-offs. So a lot of advice firms they do tend to do a lot on one platform and then expect a lot, but then it does nothing quite right. And I kind of liken it to a professional network. So, build a professional network because you have people who are specialists in the areas that the client might need. And so you build that network because you know what you’re good at. And you need to find people who are also good at what they’re doing, and then you can plug into each other and collaborate. And that’s how I see technology as well. You want to find the best piece of technology for its use so that you’re not constantly just trying to make something work that just doesn’t fit, and then just being really clear on what it is that you actually need. Because technology is also expensive. Every time you subscribe to something, and you introduce a new piece of technology, it requires training, staff training. Client training requires your time to make it work for you. So it’s just being really clear, ultimately starting with the end goal, what is it that we want to achieve, and what pieces of technology do we actually need to then support us to achieve that goal?

Rob (28:56.374)

Yeah, so it starts out with the problem we’re trying to solve for. Then we’ll look at the market and see what’s available that is best of breed that solves that problem. Overlaid with, does it work nicely and seamlessly with other things we already use? Trying to find that perfect combination that solves the problem, it’s best of breed and it integrates nicely with other things that we currently use. Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca Tai (29:10.953)

Yes. Integration. Correct. And I think that the pro is that the con is obviously you have a lot of pieces of technology to have to manage. but the pro is that you can then have that flexibility. If something’s not working for you, you can just take that piece out and replace it readily with another piece that might be better.

Rob (29:24.716)

Yeah, yeah.

Rob (29:39.853)

It’s actually we first connected because we were using a common piece of technology back in I was gonna say like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen maybe, we first started speaking, and we’ve ha followed the exact same ideology around technology that you have, which is to say, find best of breed, make it all work together as best we can, but

Rebecca Tai (29:45.982)

Yeah, a long time ago.

Rob (29:58.541)

Yeah, it was, as you say, deliberate because we didn’t want to become dependent and reliant upon one piece of software because if things didn’t work quite right, we could actually just excise one piece and replace it with something else, and I liked that theory as well, and we’ve applied it ever since as well. So now speaking of tech, let’s talk about a couple of pieces that you’re using. You use Claris for file notes, and you’ve spoken about how much it’s changed the way you work.

Rebecca Tai (30:09.878)

Yeah.

Rob (30:25.826)

Where else in the advice process do you think there’s still room for technology to take some of the weight?

Rebecca Tai (30:30.953)

I think there’s a lot that we could still be using to maximize it. And I’m not a hundred percent there yet. Still an ever-evolving journey like we are all on. I think there’s huge potential in compliance monitoring. So being able to flag things that, you know, are upcoming or need attention, automated data integration aggregation, so just being able to collect data for you on your behalf. Obviously, it can never replace the human judgment side of things, but what is it that is, you know, low-value friction areas that you can replace with the use of technology, as opposed to bums on seats, having to actually do the work maybe less consistently as well. Yeah.

Rob (31:13.666)

Yeah. I know that data collection piece you just mentioned, using My Prosperity for that, for the onboarding and gathering that first piece of information about the clients, you flag some limitations you’ve experienced, albeit you’ve said it’s it’s certainly really useful for you and it’s making some huge gains in terms of efficiency for that onboarding piece. How do you think about getting that consolidated view of a client who’s a business owner where you said it has a little bit of limitation there around business clients at the moment? How do think about getting that that view of the client’s consolidated position?

Rebecca Tai (31:39.135)

Yeah.

Rob (31:43.202)

And what the current tools, My Prosperity and others, can deliver.

Rebecca Tai (31:47.052)

Yeah, that one’s still a work in progress for us. So with MyProsperity, you can link data feeds into their cash accounts. But as you mentioned before, with our business clients, it does link all their business transactions, which distorts things a little bit. So MyProsperity is very much just for their personal assets, and we limit it to that just to make things cleaner. So no, we haven’t resolved that problem yet. But yeah, hopefully there’ll be better solutions later on.

Rob (32:15.448)

Yeah. So you just say to the client, please don’t connect your business accounts.

Rebecca Tai (32:20.169)

Or just have the surplus put it into your personal account and keep it cleaner that way. Yeah. ‘Cause in the beginning, when our business clients connected everything, it just created a big mess where they were like, I don’t rem I don’t realize we spend that much. It’s like, No, you don’t. That’s ’cause it includes your employees’ wages as well.

Rob (32:25.698)

Yeah, for sure. Let’s talk about the compliance one you just flagged there. I’ve seen a couple of different solutions in the market now that are doing SOA pre-sort of vetting, if you like, of an SOA after it’s generated. Do you imagine a situation? This is something I’ve just been thinking about for us as well. Imagine a situation where inbound calls are recorded in and out, emails are obviously already captured in the CRM, and meetings are typically recorded as people always do now for file note purposes. Imagine you actually could train an AI tool to constantly be looking at the content of those conversations and saying, is there anything here that is not quite in line with the ASIC reg guides? Is there anything here that needs to be sort of picked up and some training being applied to someone who’s perhaps not necessarily adhering to the standards we should all follow. And it’s often it’s more often than not. I mean, as much as regulators may think otherwise, I think most of it’s just simply people just aren’t fully aware always. And it’s a constant effort to try and give people that, you know, conscious training around how to make sure they stay in the guardrails. I don’t know of anyone that’s built such a thing, but that’s kind of my sort of wish list, one that enables and there are people that are doing some wonderful work about tracking all that information and I spoke to Neil Kendall from Tupacov’s on one of these episodes some months ago now and he’s tracking all inbound, outbound emails and and phone calls and and meetings and so on for the purposes of trying to find discrepancies that need to be picked up. But it’s not specifically trained on AFSL regulations and Corpse Act Chapter Seven.

Rebecca Tai (34:33.451)

Or the application of it.

Rob (34:35.788)

Yeah, that’s right. I hope that’s coming down the line. But in the meantime, I think people are doing some wonderful work around checking advice documentation in advance before it goes out to a client. I know there’s a few providers out there. Have you looked at any specifically along these lines that you’re thinking might provide a solution for you on the compliance tracking piece?

Rebecca Tai (34:54.453)

Yeah, the compliance. I’m not sure about the compliance checking piece, but in terms of like the developing the SOA, there’s already a lot of like Claude or Advice Designer looking into actually building the crux of that document for you. And then you just add the personal touches to it. So we haven’t integrated into our business yet because it’s still quite new and be interested to see how it all evolves in a couple of years’ time.

Rob (35:24.556)

Yeah, we’re doing some pilot work ourselves at the moment. It’s it’s certainly gonna be a game changer if we can get that working. So yeah, I think everyone’s looking forward to that. Everyone knows the potential of it. It’s just a matter of making it potential scalable and and production ready, as opposed to playing around on the side type ready, but actually genuinely production ready for high volume. So yeah.

Rebecca Tai (35:31.681)

Absolutely. Yeah. I think the file note has already helped a lot because it’s actually helped capture a lot of the nuance that we often miss if we’re just manually busy listening and then typing the notes. ’cause when I used to do that, it was just factual information that I put down that I might have missed, you know, a nuance that was actually really important to the conversation. So that’s been really handy for us.

Rob (36:09.292)

Yeah, it saved time and made us better. So yeah, it’s a win-win for sure. Now, something else you were very conscious of when you started out, and this surprised me when you told me this. Your dealer group was quite direct about wanting you wanting to offer insurance. They said you should offer insurance. There’s young audience of clients, this is something they need, you should do it. You took a different view, and you chose to form a business relationship with MBS Insurance. We also have a relationship with MBS, so I knew them well when you said that you’d d done that as well.

Rebecca Tai (36:11.605)

Yeah, definitely.

Rob (36:38.914)

What was it about a referral arrangement with MBS that felt that it was a better path for you and Alicia to build a business around?

Rebecca Tai (36:46.613)

Yeah, that’s a really good question. We thought about it for a really long time, especially everyone in our ear telling us you’re dealing with the cohort of clients that you’re dealing with, they all need insurance. So why would you not do it? Well, the answer to that is because once again, we want to specialize in what we’re really, really good at. And we felt that insurance is definitely a specialty area, given you know, the underwriting process and what happens when our client actually needs to claim. And you might think, well, younger clients, there might not be a lot of health issues yet, but that’s actually a misconception. The first three clients had some pretty difficult health conditions that required a special specialist to deal with the insurance process. So the first few clients that we signed on and they had their complications, we were like, it just reinforced exactly why we don’t do it. There are still plenty of things that we do to support that, but given I’ve actually never done insurance before in my career in financial planning, and Alicia hasn’t either, we had to be clear on, you know, from an ethical perspective as well, are we the best person to actually give advice on this area? And if it’s not, then we should not be doing it.

Rob (38:01.483)

Yeah, it’s as you say, it’s an ethically sound choice you’ve made there, but also as a business choice to say, well, do we skill up and train in this area because we’ve not done it before ourselves? Or do we get a specialist firm that knows it inside out? As you say, the underwriting process can be quite challenging, not to mention the claims process. And so having a specialist work with clients that you collaborate with just means that the best person is serving that client, and there’s still plenty of work to be done…

Rebecca Tai (38:17.6)

Yeah.

Rob (38:30.634)

… outside of working with the insurance for your young clients. So credit to you to actually make you know, y you’ve really set some very clear and conscious boundaries around what you will do and what you’ll do really well, which means your clients no doubt are getting a wonderful experience as advised clients of well of of your business game plan wealth advisors. So I think that’s a real credit to you, ’cause I was genuinely surprised when you said that you actually didn’t do insurance. I thought, well, that’s what I thought was the go-to for everyone that started with young clients. They would do…

Rebecca Tai (38:54.464)

Yeah.

Rob (39:00.578)

… probably mortgage broking, they would do insurance work, and so that would be kind of how they would generate enough revenue to make it economic. But well done, you.

Rebecca Tai (39:07.145)

Yeah. Yeah. I think it definitely comes back once again to that long-term vision that it is foregoing some short-term opportunities that white might provide us with cash flow in the short term, but it’s not what we want to be doing longer term, and recognizing that our specialization is not in those areas. And so sticking to what we think we can really add value to. And I think it’s it’s proven to be correct that there’s still plenty of for us to add value to the clients…

Rob (39:12.163)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tai (39:36.767)

… without having to do their insurance as well.

Rob (39:39.874)

Yeah, terrific. And you’re about two years in now. You are self funding, so you’re paying all the bills and there’s there’s money left over at the end of that to process as well. Staying true to that original vision, as you look at the next phase of your growth as a business, where are you focusing your time and energy now when you’re not seeing clients?

Rebecca Tai (39:58.368)

Yeah, that’s a good question. So we think it definitely comes back down to for us, what’s the long-term vision, how are we gonna get there? It’s really important that we continue to build a strong brand presence. So when I’m not working on the business, that’s what I’m doing. You know, thinking about our positioning, our communication, how we differentiate ourselves from competitors or similar financial planning firms out there. And just being able to get our message out there. So people are going to have a perception of your business, whether you like it or not. They either don’t know it exists or they know it exists and have a perception of what you actually do. So it’s really clear that we’re proactive with that approach to go, well, if people are going to think about business, this is what we want them to think about when they think of Game Plan Wealth Advisers. So that’s always something that we’re thinking about when we’re not working on clients. And the other thing that Alicia spends a lot of time focusing on is that seamless experience through technology. How do we actually integrate these pieces to provide an excellent client experience that is consistent and also an enjoyable one as well. So tech branding.

Rob (41:13.004)

Yeah, it’s great. So sounds like you’ve got different hats that you’re wearing. So Alicia’s doing a bit more on the operations and workflows, and you’re doing more of the front-end marketing and engagement. And it’s fair to say, and I know that you’re an excellence advisor. I know this because I’ve known you a long time, and it’s amazing, isn’t it, that there are such terrific advisors that do wonderful work, but you can be you can be amazing as an advisor, but if you’re not visible, it’s not…

Rebecca Tai (41:39.37)

Yeah.

Rob (41:41.283)

… you’re not able to serve those clients if unless you do put the time into that marketing and visibility. So, Instagram’s obvious that that’s your primary means of engaging with people that haven’t met you f before, that aren’t coming by way of word of mouth. But of course, you’re getting word of mouth like everyone else, because young people hang out, they talk about this stuff, and they would share what they’re doing, and you’re getting referrals. But do you have a bit of a sense of the split between referrals and direct inquiries in terms of how much volume you’re getting?

Rebecca Tai (42:10.951)

Yeah, correct, it is interesting because I think I would also add that while social media is really important, I wouldn’t consider it necessarily, as they see one reel and then they book it in. It’s actually a slow burn. So you might have you might have announced that you started a business. So two years ago announced that I started a business. People quickly forget that. They go, Great job, you started a business. And then they quickly go, What business was that again?

Rob (42:30.871)

Yeah.

Rebecca Tai (42:36.501)

Whereas by putting out Instagram, something like a reel on Instagram or some information on Instagram, it’s actually more about capturing the clients who actually are ideal clients, but they don’t know it yet. By watching the things that you’re talking about, they’re realizing, actually, that’s me. I need advice on those areas as well. Or this sounds exactly like my situation. So even though they might have been good prospects already, Instagram is about heart, or social media is actually about harvesting them and watering that potential over time. And it’s just a more effective way of doing it instead of catching up with that person regularly for coffee, and not many people have had time for that nowadays. You can actually just put out a post, and then it can regularly capture those people who might have been interested from the beginning, but might not be the right time at that point in time. And as you said, it’s just about visibility. Yeah. Correct.

Rob (43:29.058)

Yeah, staying at the front, visibility, staying front of mind, being giving them content that actually is relevant to that audience. And the content, the beauty of it, doing video especially, it’s very evergreen content, isn’t it? Much of it is actually going to stand the test of time for at least a few years anyway, in terms of the type of material you’re putting out there. So it’s discoverable for people who might you might have done a video three years ago, and someone picks it up and says talking about no valid leases, and now’s the time for them. So that’s you, become the person they can make contact with.

Rebecca Tai (44:03.111)

Exactly. And it’s a bit of a storefront for us as well. So someone might have found us from a different, you know, avenue. And then they go and research us a little bit, they find our social media, so they go and click on a few videos to watch to see what we’re all about. And it gives them a feel as if they’ve already met with us as well. Because oftentimes the videos are in our office, and they get a feeling of what it might be like to walk in there, or they might see the way we talk and they’re like, I feel pretty comfortable already by the before they actually walk in and disclose their whole financial position. We’ve had clients go, I already feel like I know you guys because they watched a few of our videos. Yeah.

Rob (44:45.432)

Super powerful and very effective, isn’t it, at building that engagement with people. So so with your background and experience at all levels of a successful business, you’ve started your own now, but before that, you’ve obviously been at all levels of a very successful business. What’s the thing that’s surprised you most now in the l over the last couple of years of building your own business that’s what what’s surprised you about running your own business?

Rebecca Tai (45:06.859)

So many surprises, Rob, but I think one of the biggest things that has surprised me is to actually get to a point where you become successful. A lot of it is not technical; it’s psychological. So how can I actually ride through this period of uncertainty? And so that has been a really interesting shift from being an employee where your paycheck’s basically certain.

Rob (45:08.494)

Start listing them, Beck. What if what have we got?

Rebecca Tai (45:35.498)

And there is that peace of mind knowing that yep, you’re gonna be paid next. Whereas when you start with nothing, and you’re kind of exploring a new segment, well, what felt like a new segment to me because I hadn’t really dealt with this younger cohort of clients before. And then going, is there actually a market for this? That was a big jump in the first instance. And then ongoing, it’s like continually going testing yourself and stretching yourself. But the best thing as well, another really nice surprise, is how many people out there who are willing to help. And the preference for the professional network in our industry is just such a great industry because everyone has kind of been through it, and they’re so willing to support us. And that’s been a really nice surprise.

Rob (46:21.036)

Yeah, it’s wonderfully challenging, isn’t it? It’s sort of it’s you’re always dealing with new problems all the time, but you feel like it’s a creative pursuit and something you really can put all your energy and time into, and as you say, I I’ve I really love that point you just made there, Beck. I just wanna double-click on it. You said there, it’s about it’s a psychological thing as much as anything, because people

Rebecca Tai (46:33.814)

Yeah.

Rob (46:48.354)

We all crave certainty to some extent in our lives, and naturally, starting a business doesn’t bring any degree of certainty, certainly in the beginning. But I was listening to a podcast recently. Do you listen to the Diary of a CEO by Stephen Bartlett? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you’re a great listener and reader like I am. He was interviewing, I think his name’s Professor Scott Galloway, and he was and he was talking about what has made him successful, and he said, with a bit of profanity laced in there…

Rebecca Tai (47:01.279)

Yes, of course, Steve Bartlett.

Rob (47:18.37)

… He said, I’ve been I’ve been kicked to the curb more than once in terms of making decisions that didn’t work out. He said, and I mourn for a little bit and I get up and I just keep on going. And I I really like that framing and you’ve just said it as well in a different way, which is it’s a psychological experience of saying, I’m not gonna get this right all the time. It’s not gonna be perfect all the time, but with that resilience to look past the short term and you know, there’s there’s days where you think like, this is so hard. Things could be like really sometimes things don’t go to plan. But if the next day you wake up and think, Okay, I’ll figure it out and move on, that’s how people build great enterprises and I really do wish you and Alicia very well. I know you’ll do well. I’ve no lack of confidence that you will both build a terrific business because I know the background and your experience and just what you bring to the table in terms of the skill set. And just the the engagement you bring when you talk to clients, I’m sure, is just terrific. And your Instagram channel backs that up in spades. So wanna say thank you for joining me on Trusted Adviser Podcast Beck. It’s great to reconnect. We hadn’t spoken for a few years, but I knew you were doing this work in this space, and we ourselves have been thinking, how do we serve this younger audience? So I’m gonna reach out to someone who knows because she’s doing it. So I really do appreciate you joining me today on the Trusted Adviser Podcast.

Rebecca Tai (48:21.449)

Yeah, thank you. Thanks so much, Rob.

Rob (48:42.488)

Thanks, Bec. Great to chat again.

Rebecca Tai (48:43.605)

Thank you.