Rob Pyne chats with Dan Brown, Principal of Coastal Advice Group, about his extraordinary journey in transforming a small financial planning team into a thriving enterprise.
Dan shares the key lessons he’s learned from scaling his business, including identifying acquisition opportunities, the importance of cultural alignment, and the practical differences between “plug-and-play” businesses and “renovator’s delights.” He also dives deep into his leadership philosophy, emphasising the power of honesty, teamwork, and a growth-oriented mindset to achieve lasting success.
LISTEN
SHOW NOTES
Key takeaways
- Scaling Through Systems: Dan emphasises the importance of building a business that thrives independently of its owner by implementing robust systems and processes.
- Cultural Alignment in M&A: A successful merger isn’t just about numbers; it’s about ensuring cultural compatibility and shared values between teams.
- Future-Proofing Through Vision: Dan discusses the importance of creating a future organisational chart to identify key roles and invest in talent ahead of growth.
- Abundance Mindset: Adopting a mindset of honesty, generosity, and openness can create lasting opportunities and strengthen relationships.
- Adaptation in a Changing Landscape: Financial planners must choose between scaling up or embracing boutique models to stay competitive in an evolving industry.
Episode quotes
- “A client is a relationship; a customer is a transaction. That distinction defines how we approach every decision.”
- “Cultural alignment is the cornerstone of every successful acquisition. You can’t build a winning team without shared values.”
- “I’ve learned to focus on the roles that I’m passionate about and delegate the rest to smarter people. That’s how we keep momentum.”
Resources and links
- Book: The Clarity Field Guide: The Answers No One Else Can Give You by Benj Miller
- EOS Implementation Tool: Strety.com
- Coastal Advice Group
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to The Trusted Advisor Podcast, where you get a deep dive into the world of financial planning with industry leaders who shared their stories of winning and learning as they chartered their path to success. This podcast is for the curious, those of you that like to dig into the detail that sounds like you get ready to listen and learn.
Rob Pyne:
Welcome to the Trusted Adviser podcast. Joining me for this episode is Dan Brown, the principal of Coastal Advice Group, a powerhouse financial planning firm that’s expanded from a small team in Newcastle in 2016 to now serving more than two and a half thousand clients across multiple offices having completed 30 M&A transactions over the past eight years. Dan’s journey is nothing short of extraordinary, and he’s here to share how he’s achieved exponential growth while staying true to his core values of honesty and openness. In this episode, Dan reveals the strategies behind his acquisition playbook, the challenges of integrating teams, and the importance of aligning personal and professional values. We’ll also explore his mindset for leadership, how he builds momentum in his business, and the trends that shaping the financial planning profession today. Whether you’re looking to grow your practise, refine your acquisition strategy, or just get inspired by a story of relentless ambition and success, this episode has something for you. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn from one of the most dynamic business owner leaders in financial planning. Welcome Dan Brown to the Trusted Adviser podcast.
Dan Brown:
Thanks, Rob. Thanks for having me.
Rob Pyne:
Looking forward to this chat, Dan. We’ve known each other for a while now, and every time we catch up it’s at some event where we’re sharing what we are doing, and you’ve been really on an exponential journey over the last eight years and really keen to dig into that with you today. My recollection is that you said you started in 2016 with a team of three people in Newcastle.
Dan Brown:
Correct.
Rob Pyne:
And now Coastal’s grown to more than six locations, completed 30 M&A transactions, and you’re now serving more than two and a half thousand clients. I know you attribute much of your success to a team of experts around you, but it really does take drive and ambition and a vision to be able to do what you’re doing. So I’m really keen to dig into that and share with our listeners the journey you’ve been on, which is quite remarkable.
Dan Brown:
And as you know, I’m happy to share because every time I do that, another opportunity’s created from it. So I’m an open book and I guess that’s one of the values in the business. It’s a hundred percent of the truth a hundred percent of the time, but I think it’s always served me well, so let’s go
Rob Pyne:
A hundred percent of the truth a hundred percent of the time. It’s a great core value. And the deals and succession event you were just at over in Sydney that my COO Nick Bordi was attending, he came back and said that’s a nugget that he took away that you’d mentioned. He captured that one and shared that back with us when he arrived back from the session. Let’s start with just going back to 2016 and what inspired you to embark on such a large scale acquisition strategy and how did you get started with your first acquisition?
Dan Brown:
Yeah, it was about a year in probably 2017. We’d grown pretty quickly through the previous business I was in. Clients seemed to follow me over and which was fine, and we had to work through a process with that and making sure that that was fairly compensated for that acquisition. So that’s probably the first one we started. And the reality is is that I got to a million dollars of revenue and I was like, well, that’s really cool. And that was the first goal I wanted to achieve. And then I guess I did some coaching at the time, and one of the learnings I got from that was firstly, I wanted to grow a business that could sustain it without me. So I wanted to create, I call it a financial planning book, financial planning business, or a business that now just happens to offer advice.
So I wanted to grow a business. Secondly, every room I walk into, I’ve got this mindset of being willing to learn or willing to get the wisdom that’s there and see if I can implement it. And that also came from books and learning and seminars, conferences, and that fortunate position when you happened to run a business that you could go and learn those skills and be able to implement it. I didn’t get it right most of the time. I remember back in 2017, 18, apologies to the staff that were me at the time, but the learning I had was trying to implement one new idea a day, send all the chaos, might we create a really cool business from it. And the other piece of wisdom I got at this point was from a coach and he said, when you grow a business to $1 million, it’ll be 80% you 20% everyone else, and to get to $10 million, it’ll be 20% you 80% everyone else.
And so you have to build systems and processes, and what you’ll find is that you can then make yourself redundant if you like, and it was true and it’s hard going. And then those milestones along that journey where you’ve had to bring in new skills, new people, outsource, insource, replace, whatever it may be. And so that sounded really good when I set that goal was going to 10 million. Now looking back, and I remember my wife going, we could have had a really cool lifestyle business, but I’ve learned so much about myself. I believe I’ve become a far better version of me being able to help more clients or being able to help more people, both our team members and got engagement with some phenomenal individuals who have taught me some amazing things along the way. So then be able to pass that with them onto others. That’s why I do these podcasts. That’s probably why I share unconditionally because I think there’s more good that comes from the negative, and I know that’s why you started this one as well. So that’s why I’m here to help you and help me and see where we go.
Rob Pyne:
I love that Dan, that abundance mindset. It resonates really strongly with me too, and that’s certainly the feedback I heard and certainly every experience I’ve had with you is you just an open book and share everything willingly because as you say, the old adage of you get what you give really applies and your living example of that. So where do you think that drive came from for you? Have you tried to self-analyze to say, what is it that makes you so driven? What’s in your DNA? And then we’ll talk about what you look for in the businesses that you are acquiring and their DNA that makes them attractive. But let’s start with you and your DNA. What is it that gives you that drive?
Dan Brown:
I guess I learned now looking back that I’m more entrepreneur than financial planner. I want to be unique. I want to be something that people gravitate to and people seem to do that. I think that idea that you give yourself permission to be an entrepreneur or be a business leader or be a leader, not many people do. And I like that Marianne Williamson quote, where along the lines of give yourself permission to shine or turn the light on. So it’s like, one, I want to be the best version of myself. Two, I want to show my kids that anything’s possible if you put your mind to it, everyone says it. Oh yeah. Even people that achieve well in arts and sporting arenas, the only differences, they worked a little bit harder. I think that’s probably one of the things if I look back and my DNA would be that one, I’m prepared to probably work harder than most two, I don’t want to make any excuse.
So it gives me the chance to keep pushing myself and where it all comes from. I don’t really know. My childhood was pretty simple, seeing my dad trying to start his small business, get out of a corporate world, he had a government job, tried to start a few businesses and wasn’t that successful even though he had a crack, my uncles did the same. My uncle worked for originally was a mentor of mine and he put his kahunas on the line, moved out of Sydney and started an insurance but agency at the time. Yeah, I just think maybe it’s that try to prove people wrong or didn’t do that well at school because I was bored out of my brain, but when I found what I really enjoy, I just kept going and going and going. So there’s probably somewhere in all of that and I just like having a bit of fun and trying to be the best version of myself. So if I keep doing that, that seems to work.
Rob Pyne:
I love that work ethic as you say, and drive to learn always that genuine curiosity to learn new things. And you say you bring that mindset to every interaction with people. You’re bringing yourself to that conversation thinking, what can I learn here instead of being a know-it-all? You’re a learn it all, which is just brilliant and it again resonates really strongly with me that permission to shine. I love that. Obviously you’re avid learner by way of books as well as people interactions, and so that permission to shine really is a strong theme that leaders ultimately arrive at in their own mind that I can be this person and I want to push myself to be the best version of myself. As you say,
Dan Brown:
When I hear other people talk, including yourself, Rob, I can only be myself. So I try to be authentic and genuine and that’s probably my brand if you like. And the more I do that things work too. I also think you look back and now getting to a point where financial goals I’ve probably achieved if I sold the business today. So now my mindset shifted, well, if I show up this way, how do I help others do what I’ve done? And if we can create a business like that where more people are coming in and helping and come along for the ride, that’s going to create such a momentum that I love getting up every day. So that momentum is something I want to see where it all goes and create the best vision and version of the business as we go.
Rob Pyne:
How good is that you actually enjoy your work such that it’s never a chore. You’re not working and thinking, when’s my next holiday? You thinking I’m just getting a kick out of this every day and helping more people and helping my team be better and growing them as we help the clients we serve. So that’s fantastic. So let’s go to that question about the DNA. Of the businesses that you go looking for when you’re looking to acquire, what are the key factors you’re looking for that signal compatibility with the coastal advice group?
Dan Brown:
I guess one of the things that I speak about regularly, and it’s really hard to do because we love to talk, right? But the number one thing when you listening to someone speak, where’s it all coming from? And so I sort of think about this two factor authentication now we live in, so often people will say one thing but mean another. So I’m listening to where it’s coming from the meaning of what they do. So I used to do that with clients really well. I was very good at seeing clients and helping them, but I’m listening to the individual, it’s got to be 90% them, 10% me, I want to listen, listen, listen, listen to the meaning, listen where it’s coming from. Is it fear-based communication? Is it all about them? And I’ll tell the truth. So if I don’t believe them, I’ll say, can you tell me more because I don’t understand what you’re saying.
So I’m really challenging them on that. I think often people, if you look at their values, which are usually generally pretty boring as an adviser. So firstly I want to look at their values, their culture, what’s going on. If we have values in your business that says, I want to be honest and trustworthy, that’s why you sign up to be an adviser. So for me, I want to listen to their values. I want to see if there’s alignment between him and I. I’ve been in meetings where they’re disrespectful for women. I’m not just saying that because that’s the woke culture of today, but I’m married, I’ve got a daughter, and if they said something that’s derogatory, well it’s instantly they’re the practical things that will play out. Secondly, to that, I want values to have some meaning. They’re going to be a verb of doing things.
So that’s why ours are like that. So I’m listening to what they’re saying, I want to have alignment on the world and the universe. They don’t necessarily have to do the alignment on religious values or political values, but alignment on investment philosophy, how we help clients. Easiest trigger is that when I hear someone say customers, bank advisers always say customers, I’m like a, a transaction a client is a relationship. So they’re the little things I’ll listen for around the DNA. These are practical things. I think about how I could share that. And then looking at the physical evidence would be like, well, what pricing, what platforms, how they give advice because that DNA of your business is unique to your business and it needs to be one where we can transition or carry on into the future. So as I said last week in a presentation, my value would be pretty chilled out.
I’d write content about it for our marketing, whereas I’m happy to go and be pretty relaxed, have a beer, have a bag of salt and vinegar chips and watch some footy. If theirs was about trying to time the market or trying to talk about how the la d and they go to the opera, that’s really cool. I go to punk rock concerts, so it’s not going to be a match. So it’s really hard for me to get that across. So when we looked to early days, that’s what I had to look all when I was taking the clients on. And now when I look at our advisers that are taking on those clients, I often get the advisers to come in and meet the prospective vendor or their advisers and what we’re going to be able to transition those conversations. So that’s the practical part of where we look at it. The DNA.
Rob Pyne:
I was just reflecting as you were saying that what I think I’m hearing there is that it’s both personal and professional values alignment as well as the logistical things about platform and product and so on, but it’s very much around personal and professional values. So the question that comes to mind from that is, do you subscribe to this idea that your personal values are essentially they’ve become a part of the organization’s DNA, because you are the leader, you are the one that’s driven the vision of the business, that those personal values have become essentially embedded in the DNA of coastal advice group, and so therefore you’re looking for that personal values and professional values alignment when you’re looking for the right partners.
Dan Brown:
A hundred percent. And I went through a process where we tried to come up with some characteristics of what we want to be like, and the three are a hundred percent of the truth a hundred percent of the time. We have to aspire to that. It stops the excuses and people telling lies, excuses are just lies in disguise. But we stopped that blame not taking responsibility. If I was going to lie to you, Rob and I said, look Rob, I’m going to tell you a lie right now, but you’re just going to have to listen to it. It would still be the truth. So that practical thing, and we aspire to be a hundred percent because if we’re not a hundred percent, we’re only partially there. So it’s not telling the whole truth. And I want people to share their truth and so often in a meeting environment I’ll say, I just want you to start everything with I because it removes the generalisation.
We thought this, I’ve been gossiping to that person, whatever it means to start with. The second one is no limiting beliefs. That’s the DNA of our business. We want to push the boundaries. We want to use technology. We want to try and deliver the best possible advice, take learnings from around the world, be a cutting edge of advice, but we’re not necessarily cutting edge of investment philosophy. We want to follow a tried way. And the third part is element of this client first. So, offer advisers, say all the clients are at their centre of everything we do. If we make our decision-making process through those three values, I reckon it covers 90 to 95% of the decision making. So like yesterday we have a client whinging that they didn’t believe they got told the fee, just refund on the fee, that’ll be another client. So they’re the values. So the values become our decision making filters. It becomes our decision making when we hire ’em. When we bring across new staff members and they’re like, well, I get paid this over here, and I’m like, cool, but that’s what your dad or your parent paid you. If you want this role, this is what it is. This is what we pay everyone in this role. So yes, decision making and it’s practical application. So the values for us are doing words,
Rob Pyne:
They’re living and breathing values and I love them. It’s really very relevant because many values are very hard to enact in practise. But what you’re describing the fact that your values are actually decision making gates, if you like, saying we can’t go through that gate because eventually it doesn’t align with the values. And that’s a really powerful way to employ values in your business because it makes it meaningful to all of your team and the decision making they go through. So speaking of decision making, you described last week at that session that you see some businesses as what you would call plug and play when you go and look at acquiring them and you call some of more of a renovators delight. Can you describe those two for me and also how does the difference between the two influence the terms of the transaction?
Dan Brown:
Yeah, so the easiest way the plug and play, it’s like when you’re looking on the property market and you find their ideal house, someone’s done the work on it, you’re probably prepared to pay a bit more premium because you can kick back on the weekends not having to pay or fix repair, which as advisers, we’re probably not that handy as a generalisation. So it’s a plug and play for us. We’re prepared to pay a premium. I guess if you want to get really into it three times is where you’d start on a recurring revenue multiple and you’re probably happy to pay a slightly more if it got premium pricing or whatever. So it’d be one or fewer platforms. They know their investment philosophy, the clients are there or thereabouts regardless. So if an adviser drops dead tomorrow or we don’t need the adviser when we come across, we know the conversations are going to continue.
We’re aligned on pricing, it’s light on resources and we’re happy to pay the premium for it. Or you can see that there’s going to be some organic growth there because the client’s capacity or profitability is there. The renovators is what we come across most of the time. I believe it’s a two-year project. It’s a mess. It’s resource heavy, low pricing, a variety of platforms. They’ve chopped and changed their investment approach like they’re changing their pair of socks each day. There’s nothing really that seems to be aligned. And every adviser that’s in there is running their own race, they’re running spreadsheets instead of software. That’s probably the majority of the businesses that we come across. So often when we’re doing marketing around M&A, we actually give people a sales checklist. So these are the things you should be working on because when I come in and see our renovators, I’m going to be pushing the finger and saying, well, we’re not paying for those clients.
We are going to have to deliver all new advice documents for these clients. And the terms of the deal will be we’re happy to pay a premium on that, the plug and play, we’ll pay less on a renovator and we’ll also alter the retention clauses all the time of how long we’ll prepare to pay those payments. So plug and play, we’re happy to pay over 12 months and move on. If it’s a renovator, we’re going to probably put some safeguards in play that we’re probably going to do it over a two year time horizon, which therefore natural attrition, you’re probably likely to lose a few clients. But it also gives us time to make sure we’re given the advice to the clients and the vendor is very clear upfront that if we’re not successful in that approach, so they’re probably have to work with us a bit more.
Rob Pyne:
Does the terms of the transaction differ? You mentioned three times or maybe a little bit of a premium for a plug and play, three times revenue possibly with a premium, but with the renovators delight, do you still apply a revenue multiple to that transaction? Do you much more look at an earnings application to your business? Does it change?
Dan Brown:
Yeah, we sort of think under one and a half million for us, that’s where you’re still playing that recurring revenue land. We’re calculating it back to an EBIT multiple on what it looks like day one and probably looks like with synergies, but yeah, in a renovators one, you’re dragging it back down. You’re dragging that multiple down, whether it be through EBIT or recurring revenue.
Rob Pyne:
Yeah, in fact, what you just said then reminds me of what Tim Lane said on episode number two of the Trusted Adviser podcast, which uses EBIT multiple, then applies it as a revenue multiple on the transaction because it’s easier to measure over a period of time, whether it be the two years for Innovators delight or whether it be over 12 months if it’s a plug and play. So how do you determine that balance between upfront payment and earn out? So let’s go to the plug and play first. Are you typically paying 75, 80% upfront with a retention of 25 to 20%?
Dan Brown:
Yeah. So five years ago before that we were probably hit and hope, what does everyone else do? And then I worked with David Haintz, I guess this is a coach mentor for nearly five years, which over that period grew our revenue by 500%. So I probably maybe could give him a better word than that. But the reason we engaged him is that I believe success leaves clues. And so we developed an M&A playbook for us that included thinking about where do we pay those premiums or where do we reduce those multiples location licensee ebit, potential synergies, and also thinking about is it going to make us more efficient? Are we going to bring resources in we don’t have today? So we sort of analyse it through a filter and then our default position where we would make an offer would be 60, 20, 20, our retention payment over a 12 month and two year period.
And ultimately we’re able to manoeuvre around that based on the vendor’s preferences. And so ultimately I would say to them, there’s got to be four wins. One would be we want the clients to win. Two, we want the staff to win three, we want the vendor to win. But four, we’re sort of saying now we need to make our team win because we need to consider the impact of onboarding that acquisition into both the people that are involved in onboarding but also the adviser that may or may not have to service those clients in time.
Rob Pyne:
What a revelation. The fourth one that you only just added was We need to win. And everyone else you would think we’d be approaching it with that being the number one thing. That would be first thing they’d be thinking. So you’re actually thinking it at the end. The clients have to win, the staff have to win, the vendor has to win, and finally and only added recently, you feel like you have to win as well.
Dan Brown:
Yeah, I think that’s where the amateurs, when we come up against them, they’re talking the wrong way. They’ve got an upside down. They’re talking about how we win the multiples we’re prepared to pay. My initial conversations often lead to us getting the deal done and there’s been feedback 10 or 15 minutes in they knew we were right. But that comes to that because I’m listening to them to, like I said earlier, 90% them 10% ask what are their goals, aspirations, they’ve got an identity, they’re moving towards retirement, whatever that may be. And then that’s unconsciously what they’re looking for. It’s beyond the multiple as far deeper than that. They’ve got to staff member, they’ve mentored through loss of a key partner divorce. They want to make sure they’ve got a role cooked after afterwards their clients have paid them a healthy lifestyle and built a successful business that they’re working in ways. So their clients do represent value most of the time for the adviser and the advisers thinking about what life looks like after that for them. So we listen to all of that and then we think about how do we make it work for us? And that’s probably why we get more yeses. And I think in some cases we would probably only pay the same or less than others.
Rob Pyne:
Sounds very much like you’re an adviser, approaching the client thinking, how do I make this client’s life better? But learning what their goals are and seeing if I can help them achieve those goals, it just seems like a bit of a no brainer, doesn’t it? But in reality, when people come into the M&A space, they start to flip that around as you just say, get it upside down. So you’ve just carried that mentality from being an adviser through to being a business owner that’s acquiring businesses with that same mindset.
Dan Brown:
Well, you think about in a way, generally the leads come from a broker and the broker is like, what are you prepared to pay? Put your best foot forward and we’ll see if we can get you in the door. And that’s why it’s better not to deal with a broker because the vendor often will want something completely different to what broker. So if you can find a way to do it quite common they go, I just want to stay in the same licensee. It feels comfortable. Okay, well how do we figure that out? Or the objection is I don’t want to move from where I am. And they’re like, well, I can’t really get past that. So that’s part of listening first and then figuring out how it works for you later.
Rob Pyne:
Okay. You’ve structured deals with cash, you’ve done equity swaps and combinations. What determines the best structure? Is it again, just what that person is looking for when they come to you?
Dan Brown:
Ultimately it is, but 2019 thereabouts when we really put our foot down and doing four or five transactions in a year, David’s recommendation was to use our balance sheet, bring more people along for the journey, use debt cashflow, and then so what it does is get more people on the boat or the bus or whatever and the ownership mindset. And secondly, it extended our lending runway. So we were able to using the shares as part of the deal, it allowed us to be low on multiple with the bank and kept pushing that relationship. And then the other one would be if they are going to leave the shares wasn’t an option. We wanted to be cash. So we’ve sort of used both along the way, but then once you go from being a hundred percent shareholder to 99%, what’s the difference between you being one and the rest of the people being 99%? So once there’s more than one shareholder, I think it’s fine. And some of the people don’t want to do that either, but that’s cool. But that’s how we’ve done it and it’s been highly successful.
Rob Pyne:
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it? You’re keeping people with skin in the game with equity swaps and they then still are motivated to make it work because they’re actually now a part of the overall business and yet if they are not wanting to be because they are looking to finish up, then you’re looking to be a pure cash no equity in us if you’re going to be walking away and we’ll just pay you out. And if they’ve been more recently, the equity style transactions because you are abusing your balance sheet and building that runway for further lending in future,
Dan Brown:
The two that we’re doing at the moment are all cash. The three we did earlier in the year, two of them are cash and one was cash and shares. So again, all the deals are slightly different, but there’s probably we’ll do five this year and four of them cash only.
Rob Pyne:
There you go. So it depends on really what the vendor’s looking for. No doubt. There’s been instances where sellers expectations have been challenging to meet. How do you navigate those negotiations when you really find someone that’s asking for a lot? Do you help them work their way through their thought process? Sometimes they’re setting what might be unrealistic expectations in that transaction. How do you go about navigating those sorts of challenging conversations?
Dan Brown:
I think, well one, that’s that value of telling them the truth, saying where we can get to asking them what’s their number. Sometimes you’ve got to look at it a little bit objectively saying, I got well, don’t let a hundred grand come in the way of a good deal. So you often forget with clients when they say about insurances and in the event of a claim, they never go, oh, I wish I took 50 grand less. So I sort of think about that way with our deals, but essentially what we’re try and do is get to what’s an ideal outcome, that four win scenario potentially create an earnout, we’ve done this multiple times now the default position will be like, I’ll keep working and growing the business and then come back and see me in a few years time and I’ll like, what about if we could do it now?
And so that comes down to that. So if they could give them roughly the value today and then they’re allowed to be earning the upside, and again, it’s making everyone working towards the same direction. If they’re bringing in more clients and helping me increase the fees, they’re doing the job for me, so why wouldn’t I want to make sure they win in that? That’s one way of getting around that unrealistic expectation. But also if they have an expectation that’s unrealistic to us would be an earn out period is six months they want to roll as they want to do my role and tell me what to do. And then ultimately I think the benefit we can work with them is that often advisers are the last ones to have a break. So if we can go, cool, we’ll get all this done, have a break, have two months off, go do your travel, we’ll run the business for you when you get back, this will be the role.
So just making sure that’s not I’m going to have eight months off or a year off and then come back. There is sometimes unmet expectations and that’s probably why they lead to a no outcome from us. And we’ve got that abundance mindset that’s got to be the right deal. It’s okay to walk away from them. So yeah, you will get them and often if it is, Greg will be happy with this. I’ll give him a plug. Greg Quinn, I do work with a bit and then I’ll refer them to him and say, you need to deal with a broker if they’ve come to me direct. So as I said last week, I think he asked me a few Chinese lunches coming up the future. And again, it’s just trying to help because there’s that abundance mindset. If we can’t be the right partner and you think someone else is cool, but talk to a professional because some of the things that are stopping you from getting the deal done are probably going to be the same wherever you go.
Rob Pyne:
Yeah. And what’s the longest earnout that you’ve done with someone that’s joined?
Dan Brown:
Well, two years, but then they’ve continued on as an employee and they’re happy as picking mud. So that’s probably been the longest that I can think of. Others have rolled their whole business in, that’s been another deal. So they’ve rolled in and they’re still here today, so four years later and a shareholder and they’re happy as well. But the ones that have cashed in two years has been the longest. And then they’re my great friend, Murray is our insurance adviser. He works remotely. He’s so good at what he does and he is as happy as anything. So I’ve stuck around after they’re finished their own.
Rob Pyne:
That’s great. So what are the deal breakers in your acquisition playbook and how do they help you streamline that decisionmaking process?
Dan Brown:
I think the practical things would be like licensee or compliance issues. CRM data is so important. If they’re not on Xplan, I know people have an opinion of it, but we have to use it. And so if they’re not on Xplan, that’s a big transition for us. So we’re probably going to say that’s not a match. There are stock picker or market timer. I just think that is pretty much factually incorrect now in my view of the world that the data suggests they would be unicorns if they can outperform. So it means they’re being detrimental to the client’s returns and missing out on the returns they’re entitled to. So that’d be one pricing. If it’s too far off our minimums and we can’t transition the clients that we’ll probably opt out. And if it’s under 500 grand in recurring revenue, probably not a match for us. And even at 7 50, 800 would be a hesitation these days. Why? It’s the same amount of work pretty much for 1.5 million or 2 million that it is for 500. So it’s just not the reward for the effort. I’ve referred them to other advisers in the past as well.
Rob Pyne:
And just speaking of those minimums, what is a minimum fee in your mind that if the clients aren’t paying X, what is that number that blow that you’re thinking, oh, it’s hard work to try and bring these clients up?
Dan Brown:
When we look at acquisition, we still see clients paying 1500 or $2,000 and we put zero value on them. Now they’re going to lose you money and they’re going to lose money to be able to try and keep them or transition them across. So that’s first up our view of the world is four and a half grand as a minimum these days where everyone wins, all stakeholders, the clients can get a service from a great adviser and then the adviser’s happy to do the work and the shareholder still gets some level of profit if they can’t get near there. But you’d be surprised, I reckon 80% of businesses, their average fee would sit below that four and half thousand dollars. Still, they’re very much cottage based. Industry advisers find it too hard to change, so therefore they don’t change and then they just do more and more work for the same amount of average revenue.
Rob Pyne:
So how do you evaluate the cost then of integrating a new business, ensuring that there’s enough client fee to justify the post-merger serving of that client? So there’s a process of integrating them. So how do you look at that integration cost and how do you evaluate that?
Dan Brown:
We’ve learned some hard lessons on this one too. So usually someone says, oh yeah, everything’s our next plan. We’ve got it all electronic due diligence lessons. So one, we always sit back and look at it after what we’ve learned, but we allocate now a percentage of the revenue into the contract. We’ll say we’re prepared to spend 3% of the budget or the revenue in it, just allowing for the surprises that occur, oh yeah, we paid this person’s parking that wasn’t in the p and l. Oh yeah, this is what we do. We petty cash. Yeah, so there’s all these different things that come about and how they run a business, but we budget 12 months in advance or cashflow forecast. We want to look at the benefits and synergies we get. Generally that’s through outsourcing the admin or paraplanning requirements. So it’s quite a business approach I guess just we really critique it. And then we have designated roles and responsibilities once they come on board.
Rob Pyne:
Are you applying your multiple to the post synergies number of that business?
Dan Brown:
We do two counts. We’ll do one, what it costs us and what it looks like for them on day one, like what we’ve bought or acquired. And then we do two different, and generally there’s about 10% of the revenue that we can save in cost just with the synergies of the business. And that can be a lot more and greater as we move forward.
Rob Pyne:
And is that where you are looking to try and pick up that sort of fourth piece of the win? For us, we need to be able to get some synergies that actually make this earnings accretive for us.
Dan Brown:
And there’s a couple of wins there. Firstly, if the persons that come across in the business, we could be able to pay them more because what they’re doing before was different. Or the advisers in our business, if we give them another 300 grand of revenue to look after, they’ll get paid accordingly. They’ll get another increase in their income. So I want our advisers to be the highest paid advisers in the profession. I guess that’s our aspiration because we’re doing that means we’re looking after more clients. Ultimately the outcome is is that we all do two different costs. We’ll look at the pre-transaction post-transaction and also think about what it looks like in 12 months if we’ve been able to review the pricing factor in a fall off position. And the reality is is that we could service less clients and charge them a higher fee and be a better business for it. And being okay to tell the vendor that there’s potentially there’s clients there that we don’t believe it’s the most ethical way to be charging them too. That’s all challenging conversation.
Rob Pyne:
There’s that honesty shining through. Again, just be upfront, be direct, be honest, and usually it cuts through things a lot faster, doesn’t it when you’re pretty direct and honest with people. Yep. So you are bringing team members along for the ride. When you do many of these transactions, how do you ensure you get that cultural alignment between the acquired business team members and your team? What do you do there about trying to ensure that cultural alignment?
Dan Brown:
Yeah, well that’s the biggest challenge in my opinion because they’ve got to let go of the business they used to work for compared to the organisation they work in today. And just because the vendor may have sold something and gets a great outcome, just means change for them. So we’ve got to be really upfront and talk about change creates opportunities we want to create about culture and values and vision and bring them on the journey. And we also, we have a CAG history book, so we talk about where we’ve come from and then we get some of the people that have been around for a while to present to the new staff and say, this is why we think it’s great to be part of the journey. We’ve just appointed our own culture and wellbeing leader, Ben, I know that’s not going to be my strength, so I need it around.
And we’ve got another piece of software we’ve just rolled out Employment Hero. So we want to automate our messaging. We do a lot of newsletters, the CAG Gazette just put in launch and it’s a really cool take on sharing what’s going on in the business because what happened here in Newcastle versus Port Macquarie, Adelaide, wherever it is in Australia, trying to build that connection. And if otherwise, I guess the old way of doing it is having a conference, which is really expensive to do with that many people, but breaking bread scenario, we’re trying to build that in this day in era, I guess. And then that’s where our investment’s going. So I think it’s successful so far. Ben’s a great addition to the team. He was doing personal training, but he had a great to support his wife and he is very experienced in ex-military, different way of thinking, and it’s a different way of how he communicates. So I think the best is yet to come there, but we are going to have to continually invest in that if we really want everyone to feel like they’re part of one team.
Rob Pyne:
I was chatting to an accounting friend a few weeks back and they did an accounting merger and they had a scenario where they thought the team members were on board and the principals were certainly on board. They were the ones having the conversation about the merger. And so the principles were certainly on board. There was two principles and there was eight staff after the merger. It became evident very quickly that the staff weren’t on board with the merger and didn’t want the merger to happen, and it ended up being fairly catastrophic scenario for this accounting firm, losing staff at a very rapid rate after the merger had completed. What lessons have you learned along the way and how do you actually try to engage with the staff that are going to come? Do you get a chance to engage with them in advance to find out their level of comfort with the idea of the merger, or is it really that post-merger support and just engagement, Ben doing his work that’s really trying to make sure they’re retained as key talent?
Dan Brown:
The challenge is that you’ve got to get the leaders on board. You’ve got to be open and honest and communicate with your team about the purpose or the outcome or the why. And then we use the term growth creates opportunities, and we try to manoeuvre the people that have come from a new office into a different global, well contextual role across the group. Then you’re carrying the culture both ways is our goal. But there’s others. Their favourite song will be Shannon, no, what about me? And they’ll opt out. And so you’ve got to be okay with that because whatever you do, you just can’t control the people. I think we’re in a different era with financial planning and financial planning resources. There’s a lot of movement, especially in the corporate world, and so you can pick up some really good people and sometimes that dynamic of supply and demand means that you want to try and hang on to everyone, but I feel at the moment there’s a huge supply of great people out there. So if it’s not right for them, that’s okay and we want to make sure they’re off board in the most appropriate way and there’ll always be someone else that can take their role. So just got to have that abundance mindset as well and be open and honest. I think that’s the tricks.
Rob Pyne:
And with regards to your team, do you centralise the support services in the team? You mentioned there you’re outsourcing paraplanning and admin functions, but is every office that you’ve got every location essentially using centralised support services?
Dan Brown:
Yeah. I dunno if I’ll get this the right way around, but it’s like one restaurant with multiple kitchens or one kitchen with multiple restaurants, one of those ones essentially we’re trying to make each location feel like they’ve got their own DNA, but part of a bigger business. And then the leadership team and then onshore offshore support somewhat centralised. Our goal, our focus is for the advisers to see people give advice and collect revenue and the rest should be done for them. So yeah, each location is a hub and then centralised resourcing.
Rob Pyne:
Yeah. Great. And how do you prepare existing team, your existing crew members to absorb the new clients when the acquisitions don’t include new stuff? When there is someone that’s leaving the profession, how do you resource for that? Because that can be challenging if you are looking to grow your team members.
Dan Brown:
Well, a lot of it’s done behind the scenes because we want the day-to-day roles to continue and not be distracted. So we sort of have two parts. One, we’ll try to delay and tell the right people and keep it confidential. It doesn’t always work, but essentially we’ve got that and then we have an M&A onboarding team. Mitch and I will be out there, we call it Fing, find, originate convert. Then we have an onboarding team that from data transfer through to hr, employment contracts, role descriptions, getting the marketing and PR ready. So we’ve got two designated people in that now and we’ve got the integration. So it’s the workflow, the training, the alignment from the old to the new, and we work our way through that and then we make sure we sit down and look at the learnings each time after each transaction. But essentially the people that know they’re going to be getting more clients or slightly changing their role, we’re trying to tell them upfront what’s going to unfold.
Rob Pyne:
No, that’s great. I mean, as you’ve grown clearly you’ve been able to resource those different departments of the process so that there is dedicated people to find. Then the onboarding and then the workflow piece is really good insight for anyone who’s looking to get to the point where they are trying to acquire at a similar sort of level that you are. So you’ve shifted your role, Dan, to focus exclusively on acquisitions. How has this change impacted your leadership style and the operations of the business?
Dan Brown:
It’s a constant evolution and we’re about to put a board in place, so this will change. Again, I don’t think it’s ever going to remain a constant and trying to figure out where can I have the most impact? And I’m happy to do whatever role. So I guess as the CEO title, it’s really cool, but I’ll do whatever it takes. Probably not the toilets these days, but anything else I’ll do. And there’s no hierarchy in our business. The way I see that with the rest of the team here in Newcastle, I try to get to the other offices and that’s sort of part of our DNA as well. Yeah, at the moment, I guess I got oversight. We tried to roll out traction EOS, and it just was too much for the integrator role for those who do that on the visionary as an integrator or for those who haven’t as a CEO and A COO or general manager and just buckled the business because it became too much.
So we sort of got designated roles with these house structure locations, and I only have five direct reports at the moment, and I’m really encouraging them to run the business on a day-to-day basis. The more they do that I can do the more of the M&A in that fing role. And then in time I would be doing more of the M&A. I’ve got two people now in that team with me. So we’ve got someone who does the marketing element, I guess, if you want, or the process from the day they engage with us through to the end. If I can not be involved in the advice, I’m not licenced anymore if I don’t have to do with HR marketing operations, but they’re people that I need to spend time with at least once a week. And then the rest of the time I’m out there thinking about how we grow. I see my role really these days focusing on the vision and strategy development and coaching and mentoring, but fulfilling the other roles that are supporting me to do what I do. And then if we can identify some really talent on the people, how do we fast track them through internal progression? So that’s where I’m spending most of my time at the moment.
Rob Pyne:
Yeah, you’re helping the leaders that are coming through inside your business to be mentored into those roles, whether it’s in technology or in people and culture, workflow, processing, it’s operations. That’s where you’ve got that leadership role still very much hands-on directly as well as getting out there and meeting new people to find businesses. I just want to quickly add a couple of points. We had a pretty windy day here in Perth a couple of days ago, and there were leaves all up and down the front part of our office, and I was over there in the morning very early before the cars all arrived, and with a leaf blower getting rid of it. I wasn’t the toilets, but I was definitely blowing away all those leaves on the pavement. For what it’s worth, I was in a conversation the other day and we are very much interested in the EOS principles and we apply many of them. And someone mentioned a new piece of software, it was actually our managed service IT provider said he’s just discovered that he’s a real avid user of the EOS processes and it was called st stretchy.com, so S-T-R-E-T y.com. And I’ve had a little glance at it and it does look worth having a closer look at for implementation of EOS. So that’s something that just came across my purview about a week ago, and I’m looking to get a bit of freedom on the weekend to have a look at it because the week’s been pretty solid.
Dan Brown:
Same.
Rob Pyne:
So what is the long-term vision for the business, Dan? You’ve grown it incredibly over eight years, you’ve grown locations, people, staff, it sounds like you’re really having a good time doing it, enjoying the journey, enjoying the engagement with your team and their growth and serving clients in multiple locations. Now, if you were to step back for a second and think, where is this going? What’s the long-term vision or end game you have in mind for Coastal Advice Group?
Dan Brown:
Well, firstly, I’m enjoying it, having fun, but I guess the mandate we’ve got is we’re trying to provide value for all stakeholders, make sure the team wins, make sure our clients win, make sure our shareholders, we originally had a vision to get to 10 million and own Central Coast to the Gold Coast, but then we sort of went past that now and then thinking about where we want to head. So I guess the goal today is to build an Australia wide client base. I want to be able to help clients with a small balance through to very wealthy people. So we’re building out different models in the business. We talked numbers. We sat down with the traction EOS and did the one page plan, the three year goal we originally set, we conquered it 18 months.
Rob Pyne:
What was that, Dan?
Dan Brown:
It was to get to 12 and a half million revenue. So I think at the time where it was six and a half and through the acquisitions, we’ll hit 12 and a half within an 18 month period. And so then we go, well, we better sit down and do it again. So when we sat down last time, it was to go again. But when we did the original vision, it must have been 2023, the 10 year vision it has in that page was to get to 50 million by 2033. But unfortunately for everyone else in the business, I also picked up a book when I was in the US called Clarity by a guy called Benji Miller. And he said, when you’ve got your vision and you say, I want to do this, how would you cut it in half? How would you cut the timeframe in half and start focusing on the things that you really need to do to shift the dial? So that’s that M&A piece that’s focusing on that, having designated roles. And so I really think we’ll get there by 2028 instead of 2033. I want to create the best damn business we can. And if I keep focusing on that, that allows me to make better decisions to move towards that
Rob Pyne:
Clarity by Benji Miller. I’ll have a good book recommendation, so thanks for that. I’ll put that in the show notes.
Dan Brown:
It’s super simple if you haven’t read it in an hour and a half, like lots of questions and stuff. Yeah. Anyway, it was really good. It was just like, this is actually really cool. And then do the right roles that are going to transition you towards your goal. Stop doing the things that are going to slow you down. And that’s allowed me to probably let go of the things that I used to do. I used to see clients, I hung onto my licence and then I was like, I’m not passionate about that. I’m passionate about creating the best business. So that’s where we’re at today. And I think we could go beyond that very quickly too, because it just seems to be all lining up. But again, I’m not too attached to the vision. It’s just making us take the right steps, move towards that.
It’s making me invest in the right resources, bringing on smarter people than me. It’s bringing on people to do the roles that I don’t want to do or not passionate about. And as we do more of that, it starts to really gain momentum. And Grant Hackett, I’ve got to meet him a few times with Generation Life and he talks about momentum, and I can absolutely feel that momentum we’ve got right now, it feels like it’s literally I’m hanging on for dear life. We’ve got such great conviction, we’ve got really good people. And so that number and those goals might change as we go through the next few years.
Rob Pyne:
No, for sure. It sounds like you’re on a surf ball with a wave and it’s growing behind you and it’s taking you at hyper speed at the minute. So yeah, that’s fantastic. I mean, you are growing quickly through organic and inorganic acquisitions. You are seeing those roles that you are employing in the businesses. They’re really being funded in large part by that growth. You’re being able to say, well, now we’ve got the capacity to now add that role, add that role so we can keep growing faster. So it’s almost like this flywheel effect of as you grow faster, you can then pour money back into investing in the business by way of new people that help you continue to speed the flywheel up.
Dan Brown:
A thousand percent, a thousand percent. And David taught me a trick, and I’d highly recommend that Build a future org chart. Just do a year’s time. So what does the org chart look like at the end of 2025? Or do 2020 pick a timeframe, probably aligns to your financial goals, maybe perhaps if you go on financial years, because the reality is it starts to make you think bigger. This is no limiting beliefs. And I was like, I think I need an ea, put out an ad. And I had this lady who’s now phenomenal in the business, Sarah, who joined, she’d spent 10 years in Dubai, growing two other businesses from 40 to 120 staff. I’m like, you’re not an ea. Help me run the business and help fix up all the governance and structure in the business. And she’s like, I did HR as well.
And so all of a sudden she comes in and grows from within and ends up in HR function, automating that, helping me with HR opportunities, as we should say. And then I’m like, we’ve got to hire Ben Wellbeing. She’s like, I don’t think so. You know him from the gym. I’m like, oh, trust me. He’s really good, dude. He’s got lots of experience. He’s managed businesses of people, 60 people on the team, get him here doing that. We’ll fix this. We’ll lead by culture. And then she interviewed me, he’s like, he’s really good. I said, I told you. And my wife was doing parts of that role and she’s like, she wanted to step back and she’s like, we’ve got to get Ben. So we sit down now at the end of year and we’re doing it in real time. So we’ll have that ready for January for our year ahead and look at the old charm creating new roles that no one has.
There is no blueprint for me to follow. And so we’re going to have regional managers, we’re going to have people doing roles, which we never thought possible. And it does get you thinking bigger, but it also starts making you do the transactions or utilising the revenue it comes through or finding other people in other businesses that are really cool and you’re like, I can use you. How about this role? And so it keeps you taking those little steps to move you towards your goals, just as you would say to your client in a client setting. And so it’s unconsciously saying, well, we are on track to this goal. We’re going to go and do it. We don’t have any limiting beliefs. This is how we’re going to do it. And we start putting conscious decisions in place that get the right people turning up at the right time, put them into the business and growing from within.
And ultimately, I think that’s the thing that looks like outside looking in. A lot of the people that we have in different roles today have come from a receptionist starting one day a week. Theresa, who does all our ongoing management, she started as a receptionist, now she has a team of four helping her. It’s really cool to watch. And our operations manager, Nicole, I’ve known for a very long time, she’s a shareholder in the business and she started one day a week coming back from maternity leave. So getting good people teaching them the DNA of the business and let them grow. That’s cool to watch.
Rob Pyne:
That’s fantastic. I mean, so two real big takeaways there for me. One is the future org chart and actually building out this vision of what the roles look like, what the business looks like, and what roles you’re filling and creating roles that there’s no blueprint to follow, but you’re creating roles. You think we need someone that can do this. But then what I heard loud and clear there was you’re just finding great people. You’re not thinking about does this person have experience in this role? First you’re thinking, I know this person actually is just a great person, great character. Their DNA is really aligned with our DNA and I think we can have them work in our business and employ some of their skills, but they’ll develop inside our business, they might bring some level of experience, but really they’re going to be given an opportunity to really shape that role for themselves inside your business because they bring the right character and mindset to the table.
Dan Brown:
Yeah, higher on the mindset when you can teach the rest. The other thing is that default is to hire people like ourselves where we need to find people on the other side. Things are going to compliment you. And so we get so niche that you end up only doing one thing a day. The business leaders that you see these Steve Jobs and they used to do two meetings a day, why did they do that? Because they put their a hundred percent attention into that. They didn’t worry about all the other things. They trusted that other people would do it. So if you’re listening to this and you want grow your business, I reckon these are some of the easiest things you can do, and you’re like, it makes sense. So instead of hiring another role, well, you want to exit yourself out of the business or you want to go and be the head of property management and get rid of the leaves at every location.
You could have that and how would it look? And so then you could say, oh, I’m going to need to train someone up to take my job and then whatever. And so it just gets you thinking a little bit differently, and I think it’s actually aspirational when other people find out is there going to a leadership team at that next level? Then they’re hearing you do it. They’re like, well, what can I do? And we literally promoted someone. We talked about a new role yesterday with one of the ladies downstairs and she was in a CSA or CSM role, and we said, we want you to run the advice workflow in the business and we’re going to merge the two houses. We run here into one. And she just lit up and it’s the first time she’s actually written me anything. I think in six months she’s been here, she was sending me a test saying, I’m so excited about the opportunity.
I’ve got so many questions, but I think you’re on the right path, Dan. Let me know what the hell with, I’m like, I didn’t even know you had this in you, and I don’t think she’d ever written me a one-on-one piece of communication or spoken that much. So it’s like that’s your culture, and if you can create that without speaking it and just becomes what you do, and everyone thinks they’ve got an identity to work towards or a chance to grow and learn now saying all that is probably what is our DNA? I’ll go back to one of the questions about an hour ago. That’s what it is.
Rob Pyne:
I can tell by just the way you described that, Dan, that the energy and the enjoyment that really comes through strongly. I can just see the way you were just rattling that off. It was just coming out of you because it’s just something that you’re really passionate about. It’s great to see. It’s very infectious and I can see why people really are gravitating towards you and why you’ve been so successful in growing Coastal. So with all those acquisitions and the growth that you’ve been on, the learnings along the way, is there any one or two really big lessons or surprises you’ve been able to crystallise from the acquisitions you’ve completed so far?
Dan Brown:
I reckon the surprising deal after looking at lots and lots and lots of businesses, I would’ve thought in the hundreds now that how many owners of businesses run a lifestyle business and taken dollars out of that business rather than reinvesting? It surprises me every time I see it, it’s so easy because I’ll go, oh yeah, our gross being this, which if you took out inflation, that’s probably neutral and then there’s no money in it because I’m like, yeah, you’re taking it all out and then you look at the fit out, the websites just they haven’t spent any money yet. My contradiction opportunity I put to them would be, if you’d actually thought about where you want to be in five years, there’s probably so much opportunity that you’ve missed or left on the table where you could join forces with someone. You could board another adviser.
You’ve got a boarder book, soul Party, your tail. There’s so many things, but you haven’t thought about it like a business. They’ve run it like a financial planning book and they’ve lost so much on the table, and in my view, it maybe bias, but the arbitrage that they’ve missed out on. So if you’ve got a business worth a million dollars, it’s a million dollars of revenue, it’s probably likely to be worth more 2 million where you could have been way more efficient. So you better off having 50% of something worth twice the amount or a hundred percent of something. That concept I reckon I see all the time and I’m like, oh, maybe I’m too far along the other way, but I reckon they’ve missed out. That’s probably some of the lessons that I see constantly. So if you’re running a business, I think you’ve got to be aware that there’s stakeholders in the business that you’ve got to represent. If you are the director, you’ve got to think about the shareholders getting a return, the client’s getting a great experience and your people, but potentially just sit there with your shareholder hat on, sit objectively, leave your ego at the door, and there might be a great opportunity for you to increase your value, which obviously benefits you, your family, and the next generation if you can increase the value of the business.
Rob Pyne:
Absolutely. And so is that the advice you would give to other advisers? You’re clearly giving it to advisers that are out there now that are looking to maybe fold in, be a part of Coastal Advice Group. If you were going to give advice to advisers that are actually outside of your sphere of influence right now, and they’re looking at going down this path considering acquisitions as part of their growth strategy, is that the key sort of message you would deliver to them if they’re contemplating it?
Dan Brown:
I just think don’t be afraid of having a conversation. Go back to the roots of why you started the business, was to create a business that created probably lifestyle, income, help people. But if you can think about you are going to sell it at some point, every business gets sold, and so it’s whether you choose to sell it or sold for you. So thinking about it like that and say, what’s my plan and why not have a conversation earlier with someone? It doesn’t have to be asked, we might not be the right fit, but I’m sure there’s a great opportunity by talking to another advice firm or being open and honest. It might be, what if we did it like this? Or could you do that or would you be prepared to do this role? There’d be so many different ways by having a conversation, you never know where it goes.
Obviously, we could sit there, we can show them if it’s us, what they could do or what they could achieve if it was through us. But it doesn’t have to be. I just think it’s such a missed opportunity and it’s happened. The rollup and all that that’s happened in other professions, it tells you there’s clues there, right? It’s happened in vets, chiropractors, osteopaths, dentistry, legal accounting. As your business gets bigger, as a general rule of thumb, they’re going to pay you more and then they’re going to pay even more if they can replace you. You don’t have to make yourself redundant. So there’s all these lessons in every book you’d ever read, yet there’s so many financial planners that just don’t even think that way. So that’s the way I’d say, think about it as a business owner first and you had to create the best damn business that you could, and then think about then what you do as your financial planner huddle, and then what you’d do for your team members.
Rob Pyne:
Yeah, great. So looking ahead then, Dan, as we wrap up, what trends are you seeing in the financial planning profession that you think will shape your approach to acquisitions now? Is there anything there that you are seeing, that you’re thinking that will have to accommodate for that or think about that in the acquisitions in the future that we tackle?
Dan Brown:
There’s two different models and you’ve got to know where you play and be really super comfortable. I think you’ve got to scale up. Again, I’ll probably conflict it here, but anyway, I reckon you’ve got to scale up and use those opportunities to help more Australians get financial advice. There’s a massive demand and you’ve got to be ready for scale, creates the opportunity to put systems and processes like we’ve just talked about through this in play. The alternate would be that you keep a boutique, keep it as a lifestyle business and be really comfortable with that, but own it. Tell your clients that, tell your staff that, and that’s the way you’re going to be, and we’re clearly on the path to continuing to scale. I think you’ll see influx of money into Australia. I think you’ll see if you go forward looking super funds, wanting to partner with advice firms, they don’t want to do it, but this is the industry super funds, or probably even the personal style as well. There’s less advisers. I think advisers will become like a specialist surgeon. They just do the advice part and everything else is done for them in a scaled business, perhaps in a boutique. But I think there’s just one or the other. Just say, get caught in my man’s name.
Rob Pyne:
Well, Dan, I knew I was going to enjoy this conversation and you certainly didn’t disappoint. I love your honesty and authenticity, the lessons you’ve learned, and just the way in which you are very open to sharing what you have learned along the way. I did anticipate this being a very popular podcast for our listeners, and I’m sure they’ll feel that way as I do now, just as we finish up our recording. So again, thank you so much for your generosity of your time and your sharing, Dan, for joining us on the Trusted Adviser podcast today.
Dan Brown:
Thanks, Rob. Thanks for listening.